Newsgroups: comp.databases,comp.lsi,comp.parallel.pvm,comp.parallel.mpi,comp.org.acm,comp.org.ieee,comp.protocols.misc,comp.realtime,comp.software-eng,comp.sys.super,comp.theory,sci.math
From: eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya)
Subject: Re: Publishing Scholarly Work on the Web -- opinions?
Organization: UC Santa Cruz CIS/CE
Date: 8 Oct 1996 18:14:58 GMT
Message-ID: <53e5n2$5fl@darkstar.ucsc.edu>

eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) writes:
>>I asked one of our industrial partners when they expect to see the first
>>PhD dissertation in html (or SGML): they doubted it (and this from one
>>of the most prestigous universities in the country).  We'll see.

In article <527fsm$f99@agate.berkeley.edu>,
Joe Buck <jbuck@cooley.eecs.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>Many Ph.D. theses (hundreds, maybe more) are available online in HTML
>form.  Since most institutions let the student maintain his/her own
>copyright, this is the type of technical document *most* likely to be
>available in HTML form in the web (no journal jealously guarding its
>limited subscription revenues to worry about).

I should have been clearer.

These theses are basically post facto.  I just copied and printed a
friend's attempt (PostScript).  The problem is that these institutions
are still based on paper.  You don't see PGP signatures on these thesis
web pages.  Institutions still require a hand written signture.

>HTML is not suitable as the language to write one's thesis in;

True: difficulties with math and chemical formulae and diagrams.

>SGML form *is* suitable, and I'd be willing to bet money that someone out
>there used an SGML-based publication system to write his/her thesis.
>Given these things it seems your contacts are rather out of touch.

One of my contacts is using SGML, and I'm trying to get them to invite
Charles Goldfarb (who only lives about ten miles away to come).  Joe,
you know me better than that! 8^)

>Um, *Eugene?* Don't you know who developed the WWW in the first place,
>and why?  The reason CERN did it in the first place was to efficiently
>share experimental results from high-energy physics experiments.

Actually the DOE gave me first hand experience on their opinions of the
Web. 8^)

>It is the journal publishers and technical societies that are resisting,
>not because they are bad guys but because their budgets assume they are
>going to keep collecting for journals, reprint rights, conference
>proceedings, etc.

Partially true.
I think you will find there's a large mass of humanity opposed to the
Internet.  These people aren't Luddites (I know of couple of them, too:
one of them just informed one of my climbing  of the hollow UFO base
inside Mt. Shasta).
Another person on email typified himself to me as a linear-text bigot.
He wanted linear text.  He hated hypertext.  Contrast that to Ted Nelson
whom I had pay a visit to Stanford.  He blew those guys away.  It was
great ("Sorry, links make poor footnotes": Ted).

People do not like all of the things we have placed on the Internet.

>If these things weren't an issue, all the other problems could be solved.
>A given e-publication could provide standards of thoroughness and expert
>review that could match anything done on paper, and get the results out
>more quickly.  Digital signatures could be used to certify that this is
>the authentic version of the paper published in the e-journal of the
>international whatzit society.

We think that.  We are not certain.  Like OS deadlock, I suspect that
other problems will come up.

>-- Joe Buck     <jbuck@synopsys.com>
>(posting from UC Berkeley since our news is hosed again)

My site, too 8^).


We're getting away from math and theory, so I'll trim those.


